Curse

HawkofStorms · Nov 15, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud5646

not used anymore? it's on most shadow prison builds when it's not lightining reflexes...

Relative to how popular it used to be... yeah its not.

jelmew · Nov 15, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

I'll keep it short.

Nerfs are good.

They "renew" the game. For free. How is that bad?
I enjoy GW because having the best 8 skills + best usage == win. I don't care if I have to change those 8 skills every month or so.
They force me to puzzle with skills. I enjoy this. Free enjoyment. How is that bad?

Flame me.

Disclaimer: My favourite class, the assassin, got "nerfed" today. So don't start with "Yeah but you didn't get hit by the nerf bat". This nerf didn't make me sad. Instead, I can make a new, perhaps better "best" build, and prove my worth as best assassin ( and best assassin builder ) once again.

Finally more persons who can look further then the "Help, they nerfed my build" Argument.

Navaros · Nov 15, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Nerfs don't "renew" the game, nerfs ruin the game.

If a game is inherently interesting in the first place, then it would not require having the rules drastically changed from one week to the next to "keep it interesting". If nerfs are "required" to keep GW "interesting", then that only speaks to fundamentally uninteresting core game mechanics that should be improved. Nerfing never improves anything.

Earth · Nov 15, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Nerfs don't "renew" the game, nerfs ruin the game.

If a game is inherently interesting in the first place, then it would not require having the rules drastically changed from one week to the next to "keep it interesting". If nerfs are "required" to keep GW "interesting", then that only speaks to fundamentally uninteresting core game mechanics that should be improved. Nerfing never improves anything.

It improved HB, amirite?

Gigashadow · Nov 15, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

I don't mind nerfs. This isn't an mmo where you play only one character, invest 100 days of gear in it, and then it gets nerfed into the ground, leaving you with nothing.

As far as PvP goes, my opponents are in exactly the same situation, so I am no worse off. It would only be a problem if I played only one class and was totally attached to one skill bar, but neither of those things are true.

wsmcasey · Nov 15, 2007, 06:51 PM // 18:51

I dont like it, but I'll learn to adapt in some way. I was just starting to enjoy my assasin.

I can kinda relate this to having a good stiff drink vs. a watered down drink. The watered down drink might quench my thirst, but it wont make me drunk and it's nothing to write home about. Come on Anet, make me drunk with excitement! Make some better decisions on skill updates that dont screw up over half my assasin builds! Pretty please?

Yanman.be · Nov 15, 2007, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Blade

New items, new quests, new areas

New items? PvE
New quests? PvE
New areas? PvE

Skill balances is at least something the entire family can enjoy. ( That means both PvE and PvP )

~ Dan ~ · Nov 15, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Earth X

It improved HB, amirite?

Not really. Black mantis thrust combo still exists. Recall still exists. Thus, HB is still doomed.

Omniclasm · Nov 15, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Earth X

It improved HB, amirite?

Not really, it is still a retarded runfest.

ensoriki · Nov 15, 2007, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

New items? PvE
New quests? PvE
New areas? PvE

Skill balances is at least something the entire family can enjoy. ( That means both PvE and PvP )

New areas can work for Pvp as, well (PVP accessible areas...new pvp maps)
New items works for PvP as well.
New quests however does not.

So 2/3 works both ways. 1 does not. However that 1 is something pvp would not be interested in anyways,

kilkelo · Nov 15, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

/agreed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glider of chaos

Nerfs are not fun. While being necessary and even unavoidable sometimes, they don't bring anything new to the game.

Sure it does! It brings drama! And we all know how much Guru goers love flaming ANet!

Bankai · Nov 15, 2007, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

New areas can work for Pvp as, well (PVP accessible areas...new pvp maps)
New items works for PvP as well.
New quests however does not.

So 2/3 works both ways. 1 does not. However that 1 is something pvp would not be interested in anyways,

New areas don't work for PvP, since you don't play PvP in PvE.
New items don't work for PvP, because all new items are new skins, and we don't give a shit about skins.

Also, skill balances don't ruin the fun. The guy who said that was posting that under the false assumption that if the game is fun once, it's always fun. Over time, people will always find better builds to improve. If you look at the beginning of the game and just before factions was released, entirely different skill were run: the longer people play, the better they grasp the current metagame, and what skills could be used better. It took a long time before people started using LoD, for example. Metagames always change a lot when they're first created (and they're usually created by skill balances), but after some time, they'll always stay the same: people have found the optimal build, and there's no reason not to run it.

Burning Blade · Nov 15, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

New items? PvE
New quests? PvE
New areas? PvE

Skill balances is at least something the entire family can enjoy. (That means both PvE and PvP)

As ensoriki already pointed out, 2 of 3 can be made available to PvP. New areas for PvE or maps for PvP. new items can be added to chest drop in HA. And if quests are not applicable in PvP, add more types of play to PvP. Right now you have what? Capture the flag? capture the relic? ( I don't know since I only play AB and a bit of RA) How about adding "Capture the girl or boi or whatever"? Don't laugh. I just want to make my point.

So it is sad that you are willing to enjoy game updates in the form of constant nerfs.

I agree that skill balance is needed but buffing one through the roof or nerfing other to oblivion is bad. And game updates/renewing/refreshing should come in the form of new contents, not NERF.

Glider of chaos · Nov 15, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilkelo

Sure it does! It brings drama! And we all know how much Guru goers love flaming ANet!

I doesn't. Drama takes place on forums, not ingame.

ensoriki · Nov 15, 2007, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

New areas don't work for PvP, since you don't play PvP in PvE.
New items don't work for PvP, because all new items are new skins, and we don't give a shit about skins.

Also, skill balances don't ruin the fun. The guy who said that was posting that under the false assumption that if the game is fun once, it's always fun. Over time, people will always find better builds to improve. If you look at the beginning of the game and just before factions was released, entirely different skill were run: the longer people play, the better they grasp the current metagame, and what skills could be used better. It took a long time before people started using LoD, for example. Metagames always change a lot when they're first created (and they're usually created by skill balances), but after some time, they'll always stay the same: people have found the optimal build, and there's no reason not to run it.

Its sad you choose not to comprehend the post.
You can have new PVP areas as well did you know that? New maps/ new forms of pvp, you know we can get that right? A-net chooses not to, because they rather not work on that and instead do other things. What they are doing I have no information on and thus I will not say anything more about that.

You can get New items that are not just reskins, the -50 hp off hand proves this, there were also other unique items like the -50 hp off hand but some of them were removed and have become rare. Just because a-net chooses not to, doesn't mean its not possible.
Also whether or not you "Give a shit" about reskins is not the point, it is accessible to PvP through use of storage/trade/buying and so the point stands.
Thus I am still correct and your statements however, Are false.
Insert 25 cents to try again.

The guy above did not say skill balances did not ruin the fun, but that nerfs ruin the fun. It is his opinion whether or not nerf's make the game fun for him or not. You can generally only speak of what a fun game is in your opinion.
Personally I quit GW do to stale game and would check Guru every week to see if a new skill balance had come. 1 of the most fun times I had in Guild wars were doing the large skill balances at the beginning of this year. The skill balances we could input our opinions. I had lots of fun testing all the new things I could do, and I wish that would happen again.

End.

Bankai · Nov 15, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Its sad you choose not to comprehend the post.
You can have new PVP areas as well did you know that? New maps/ new forms of pvp, you know we can get that right? A-net chooses not to, because they rather not work on that and instead do other things. What they are doing I have no information on and thus I will not say anything more about that.

You can get New items that are not just reskins, the -50 hp off hand proves this, there were also other unique items like the -50 hp off hand but some of them were removed and have become rare. Just because a-net chooses not to, doesn't mean its not possible.
Also whether or not you "Give a shit" about reskins is not the point, it is accessible to PvP through use of storage/trade/buying and so the point stands.
Thus I am still correct and your statements however, Are false.
Insert 25 cents to try again.

The guy above did not say skill balances did not ruin the fun, but that nerfs ruin the fun. It is his opinion whether or not nerf's make the game fun for him or not. You can generally only speak of what a fun game is in your opinion.
Personally I quit GW do to stale game and would check Guru every week to see if a new skill balance had come. 1 of the most fun times I had in Guild wars were doing the large skill balances at the beginning of this year. The skill balances we could input our opinions. I had lots of fun testing all the new things I could do, and I wish that would happen again.

End.

First of all, nerfs and skill balances are the same in my opinion. I use them interchangably. Also, you can still input your opinions.

Second of all, all new areas added to pvp are complete shit. Wurm is dumb with the health shrine and the way archers behaved on that map for ages, corrupted is gay because of splits, Uncharted is dumb with the flag stand not in the main fighting area.

Third of all, there haven't been any unique items like the -50 offhand since prophecies. All new items are always the same stale items with the same upgrades. That's not a bad thing. Not at all. However, in general, pvpers don't really care about skins. I just use them because I have to spend my reward points on something.

Dan0xxx · Nov 15, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

I'll keep it short.

Nerfs are good.

They "renew" the game. For free. How is that bad?
I enjoy GW because having the best 8 skills + best usage == win. I don't care if I have to change those 8 skills every month or so.
They force me to puzzle with skills. I enjoy this. Free enjoyment. How is that bad?

Flame me.

Disclaimer: My favourite class, the assassin, got "nerfed" today. So don't start with "Yeah but you didn't get hit by the nerf bat". This nerf didn't make me sad. Instead, I can make a new, perhaps better "best" build, and prove my worth as best assassin ( and best assassin builder ) once again.

In some ways i agree with you, but i personally think that 'nerfs' are not good. They destroy farming, which once you have completed the game is pretty much all there is to do (other than pvp). Although i hate nerfs i do love 'updates'. There is a difference between the two, nerfs are supposedly to keep balance in the game (although personally i dont think they have done a very good job so far), whereas Updates are entirely new content to improve certain aspects of the game.

Cargan · Nov 15, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

I'll keep it short.

Nerfs are good.

They "renew" the game. For free. How is that bad?
I enjoy GW because having the best 8 skills + best usage == win. I don't care if I have to change those 8 skills every month or so.
They force me to puzzle with skills. I enjoy this. Free enjoyment. How is that bad?

Flame me.

Disclaimer: My favourite class, the assassin, got "nerfed" today. So don't start with "Yeah but you didn't get hit by the nerf bat". This nerf didn't make me sad. Instead, I can make a new, perhaps better "best" build, and prove my worth as best assassin ( and best assassin builder ) once again.

This post makes me happy

I'm going to avoid reading the rest of the thread with people with their negative attitudes.

Of course there are some nerfs I hate, but that doesn't last long and I deal with it and keep on playing and adapting. nerfs/changes are what keeps the game from going stale. If nothing changes then you get no reason to change build. If you've no reason to change build then you play the same one again and again. If you do the same thing again and again you get bored. If you get bored you stop playing.

ensoriki · Nov 15, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

First of all, nerfs and skill balances are the same in my opinion. I use them interchangably. Also, you can still input your opinions.

You can use the words however you wish, however not everyone else will know how you use words.However that poster said nerfs ruin fun, which would be his opinion. However its fact that this is not true and nerfs can create more fun, excessive nerfs however ruin fun.
I did not say do not input your opinions, I said generally people can only speak about what makes a game fun from opinions.

Quote:

Second of all, all new areas added to pvp are complete shit. Wurm is dumb with the health shrine and the way archers behaved on that map for ages, corrupted is gay because of splits, Uncharted is dumb with the flag stand not in the main fighting area.

Once again, Even if you think it is shit, it is something that can be given to PVP'RS Those maps were added from additional campaigns, A-net has slowly stop caring about adding PVP benefits from there campaigns/expansions, so its understandable they wouldn't be up GW society's image of up to par.

Quote:

Third of all, there haven't been any unique items like the -50 offhand since prophecies. All new items are always the same stale items with the same upgrades. That's not a bad thing. Not at all. However, in general, pvpers don't really care about skins. I just use them because I have to spend my reward points on something.

I was saying New item's can benefit PVP, you said you do not give a shit about that however as they currently are all just reskins. Yet this is only what has been shown up to now, it does not mean thats All A-net can do.

Thus you still have to Try again.
It will require another 25 cents.

Cargan · Nov 15, 2007, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan0xxx

In some ways i agree with you, but i personally think that 'nerfs' are not good. They destroy farming, which once you have completed the game is pretty much all there is to do

crap, I was about to escape from this thread without reading anything else, but I seen this and just have to state that Anet does not support farmers. Once you have completed the game there's loads to do if you choose to do it. If you have completed the game and only carry on playing to farm then then it's not a problem with the game. If anyone only plays the game to farm then it's a problem with the individual.

Cargan